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Dead Kennedys interview from Forced Exposure 4

We interviewed Jello after their second show at Pipeline.  Also present at
times were Klaus and Darron as well as Al and Richie...

Jimmy) I have some questions but...
Jello) Every interview the ink smears because of too much moisture in your
pants.
Richie) Tell us the story about Dog Bite.
Ray) It's really funny 'cause I just wrote the lyrics as filler to this
progression I came up with in '78 and like ah...
Jello) ...we still got the tape of him playing it in the bathroom with a
pignose.  Maybe some day we'll put out our bedroom tapes...
Ray) ...and I brought it in saying, 'here's the progression, these are the
words just for filler.'  And, ah, we decided to use it.  Now people are coming
up going "Oh, jeez, yeah, I can see it, ya know, the oil industry is being
bitten by the dog of the other people... "and I just say, 'yeah, yeah, right
exactly." (ha ha)
Jello) Another one came up and said, "Yeah, yeah, that song really says it
all, ya know, really tells you what it's like to have rabies!" (ha ha)

Katie) It was pretty brutal last night.  I think there were too many people in
a small room.
Jello) It was real cool, like people back up from the stage every once in a
while to give people room to breathe.
Jimmy) That didn't quite work at Fensgate last year.
Jello) Yeah, at Fensgate people just didn't do it.

Al) Across the country do you notice that there is a different breed of
audience that attends your shows?  Cause like that in front of you tonight is
not a typical Boston crowd, it was like a whole slew of new people.  Are people
packed like this across the country?
Jello) Umm, not always packed, it depends on the size of the place, again
whether there's room to dance and stuff.  We do tend to draw quite a wide
variety of people for better or for worse.  Like, umm, in some ways, today's
long hair is tomorrow's punk once he sees the music.  It all came from
somewhere.  And so we aren't opposed to playing for new people.
Al) No, I'm not saying that, I was just wondering if the response of those
people... Cause, see, they don't come to the local shows, and all of a sudden
they show up.  It's like this whole new crowd.
Jello) I'm hoping they'll like show up for local shows, too.  Now that they've
seen one, a lot of them like come back after that.  Like, last time we came
through here, you guys weren't around yet.  None of "This is Boston, not LA"
bands were around except for the Freeze.  And, umm, Dischord was a rumor at
most.  And New York, everyone was trumpeting "Bush Tetras, Bush Tetras..."  As
I was saying earlier, we could play Gallery East and leave 600 people outside
to get beaten up by the cops, but you gotta try to get everyone.  People who
want to see us should be able to see us.  And again it's a dilemma because we
don't want to turn into an arena rock band.  Places like LA and NY we could
draw 2000 plus, but is it really a worthwhile show at that point or not?  It's
very iffy, like I said earlier.  NY, the Staten Island show, a lot of people
came and a lot of people were talking about how great the show was but I think
it was kind of a sick joke.  All it was pretty "rock-n-roll."

Jimmy) All these people cheer when you say something.  Do you think they
really listen to you?
Jello) Some of them are, some of them aren't.  We don't expect to get through
to every single person with what we say.  Sometimes, did you notice, I'll hand
someone a microphone and they'll go "daheauh."  I can't believe that.  I mean,
here's your chance, here's the machine to make yourself heard, say something
intelligent.  Occasionally, people will.  It's another time honored rock-n-roll
tradition we'd like to destroy.  The same with like, umn, it's all well and
good to support your favorite bands by writing their name on the back of your
jackets, but why not think of some sentence or some idea that you want to put
across to people and write ideas on the backs of your jackets.  It can
sometimes draw some pretty extreme reactions.

Jimmy) Have you stayed away from the clubs?
Jello) Well, we're trying to stay away from that.  We'd rather play halls
where all ages can go.  Instead of taking the agent route and taking what's
given us, we put our foot down this time around.  No age limits, no crazy
bouncers, and we have a hand in choosing the opening bands.  We found, to our
horror, that some of the cities on the east coast are locked up by big
promoters.  The NY show was too big.  We figure 2000 is as big as we'd like to
do.  In Italy we drew as many as 3000 and 4000 from miles around.  They bring
their families and stuff.

Al) What was Europe's reaction to you?
Jello) Um... All in all, they got pretty wild.
Al) Did they spit on you and stuff?
Jello) In England they do, in other areas they don't.  That's something that's
exclusively English.
Jimmy) Will you go back there?
Jello) Probably this fall, yeah.  We'll probably go to Germany this time, we
didn't the last time.  The first time we went to Germany, some people had heard
about "California Uber Alles" but didn't read the words, but there wasn't as
much of a problem with that as with "Kill the Poor."  The German record company
didn't put the lyric sheet in the records so all the people saw was the song
title.

Jimmy) Do you like any of the so-called English Punk bands?
Jello) Umm, I like the anarchist bands better than the ones being promoted in
the press which are borderline heavy metal.  Personally, I don't think the
heavy metal, the cock-rock attitude, has any place in hardcore.  It's anti-art,
it's anti-thinking, it's anti-intelligent. So why take a step backwards?  If I
had to listen to a heavy metal band, I'd probably listen to Motorhead or Venom.
An English band I like a lot is Rudimentary Peni, they're great.
Jimmy) Did you see them?
Jello) No, I saw the British Subhumans instead, they were good.  British punk
bands are generally slower but there are some thrash-orientated bands that
don't even realize that's what they are.  Bands like Disorder,
Discharge...Discharge is one of the bands that puts out on stage rather than
just standing there.
Al) Are they coming to SF?
Jello) That's what's being spread around.  I don't know if that's gonna happen
or not.  It should be interesting, the singer is a direct cross between Darby
Crash and Tomato DuPlenty (of the Screamers) on stage.
Sheena) Are the British bands aware at all of what's happening here?
Jello) Some of them are.  It's hard to say.  It wasn't 'til "Let Them Eat
Jellybeans" came out that people started importing records.  Now there's a
small cult following for Dischord records.  People are starting to be aware of
Black Flag and DOA.  The TSOL album is getting there.  And "Boston, Not LA"
made it over there.

Al) What do you think about the progression of the NY scene and the East Coast
scene in general?  Everytime you come around, it's grown.
Jello) It's great.  I think the fact that more people are getting involved and
creating things like magazines and bands and even like some people are showing
us paintings they've done.  And fine, if that's your outlet, then what the
hell, do it.  It's breaking down the idea of rock-n-roll as a spectator sport. 
It should be participatory.  It shouldn't just be, uh, God goes on stage and
dances gigs for an hour and then leaves.  There is like punk conformity that
we're coming out against also.
Ray) The kids that wear the Circle A on their jacket...
Jello) Circle A's are very saleable items for capitalist markets.
Ray) Generally they don't know what anarchy means.  They think it means "I can
do whatever the fuck I want" which is bullshit.  Anarchy means being able to
take care of yourself and not fuck people around.
Jello) Anarchy is the opposite of greed and this is a very greedy country.
Ray) Kids have been taught from grade one in school that anarchy means having
a bomb in your hand and saying "Fuck You" with the other.  And that's what the
school system would like you to think.  Anarchy is a state of mind, it's not a
state of violence.
Al) Yeah, but you can't believe that anarchy could exist in today's society
with its present values and stuff.
Jello) No, what we're into I think is anarchy of the mind.  As being mentally
strong enough to divorce yourself from the rest of the rodents and make your
own decisions.  Anarchy is something that would take hundreds of years to get
across in this country.  'Cause if there were no more cops and no more laws
tomorrow, every goon with a rifle on the back of his pickup truck would go
around playing king of the neighborhood.
Al) Do you think there's a need for cops, then?
Jello) Well, the people who interpret anarchy as "I can do whatever the fuck I
want, fuck over as many people as I want..." I think it was Geza X who was
making the point that if you don't use your head enough, like move beyond rules
and not need them, once you start acting like an asshole, you're giving someone
else the right to enforce rules on you their way.
Ray) Like the bouncers tonight--they didn't have that much to do because the
people generally policed themselves and made it not necessary for them to get
out and be crazy.

Ray) One of the problems behind the Staten Island gig was people got up on
stage and stood there like cows.  They didn't jump off at all.  It made it very
hard for the show to go on, it made it hard for everyone else to see what was
going on.
Jello) There were people there, as we were talking about earlier, who couldn't
handle anarchy if it was handed to them.  They just say, "Oh, now I'm on stage,
I'll just stake out this piece of real estate for me and not let anybody move
me."  Again, it became a greed trip.

Richie) How was your first visit to church?
Jello) Oh, right, oh, God yes, I spent Christmas with Theresa's family and
they insisted on going to midnight mass.  And, it was fascinating in a way
because I'd never been to one before.  Seeing that form of culture on parade
was interesting.  The priest coming out in his Quiana robes and stuff.  Glowing
away, talking about things.
Ray) We're not against religion as much as incorporated religion and TV
religion.
Jello) Religion for profit, religion for this...it scares me in a way. 
Sometimes in the "Moral Majority" people get totally into being in a religious
rally.  I'm thinking, oh my God, I hope I don't turn into a Jim Jones.
Katie) They get up there with these charts and say, "This is how the world is
going to end and you should send us your money now..."
Jello) Right, right.  The one I listened to in Denver was a red, white, and
blue circus tent with the Rev. Billy Joe Shambock inside.  He cavorted around
the stage using his mike stand as a sword.  Then he had time to heal people and
I had twisted my knee really bad at the time and was on crutches so I hobbled
up to be healed.
Richie) Did they whack you in the forehead?
Jello) No, Billy Joe said, "Now what's the problem here, son?"  And I said,
"It's my knee, sir."  So he took one hand and put it on my forehead, put the
other hand on the back of my head, and swung me so I was horizontal but 4 feet
off the ground.  Then he pushed me back up and patted me.  I walked to the
front of the stage, threw up my arms and smiled. The crowd cheered, old ladies
cried, and people came up to touch me.  I'm more proud of that acting
performance than almost any other one I've done.

Al) The Dead Kennedy's ever gonna be on MTV?
Klaus) MTV won't take that stuff, they won't take Target Videos.
Jello) Those are the best DK videos I've ever seen.  Target Videos.  What they
do is they tape the six-o'clock news every night to get the images for the
collages, then they use our music as the background.  So, rather than seeing
little puppets dancing on stage to their music, the music just becomes part of
a soundtrack to a greater whole.  They've done a real good one of "Chemical
Warfare" and "Kill the Poor."  That I think is a better approach to rock video
than acting out these stupid skits.

Al ) So you don't think you'll ever do live video on cable or something?
Jello) Umm, Klaus doesn't seem to be in agreement, but I don't mind
infiltrating anything.  You know, someone who's totally locked into Foreigner
is going to turn it on and have his mind blown by the Dead Kennedys in the
middle of the night.  Fine, let them have it.

Al) Do you think if you were signed to a major label it would have the same
effect?
Jello) Not really, because major labels try to water you down, so you wouldn't
recognize your own stuff anyway.
Al) Like, say, if the Bad Brains were signed to a major label, do you think
that would sway a lot of people?
Jello) It might and it might not, it will be interesting to see what happens
with X.  Obviously the distribution is better.  But you have these accountants
who have so many records to push, you run the risk of being lost in the
shuffle.  We do want widespread distribution.  Like finding a DK's record in
Woolworth's of Turdtown, Iowa could do wonders.

Al) Do you think the major reason English audiences are attracted to the DK's
is because the name is so anti-American?
Jello) It's not so much that...it was mainly luck.  We got a record released
there and it caught on...it wasn't really the name...the English press
supported our singles so people came to the shows primed to support us.  On the
other hand, many of the people had a very spoiled attitude.  When UK Decay,
(our support band on the first tour) played, people just frowned and folded
their arms because they didn't know if it was cool to like them or not...Black
Flag ran into the same problem when they went there--people weren't zombified
into their direction quite yet...
Al) Did you ever meet the UK Subs?
Jello) Yeah, they were cool people but it's hard to forgive them for bringing
over the Anti-Nowhere League...
Al) Have you played over there since "Nazi Punks?"
Jello) It was only a widespread rumor at the time.  "Jellybeans" had just been
released so we didn't get much shit for it...We got a mixed crowd and generally
they didn't fight with each other or anything...
A1) What is a "Nazi Punk?"
Jello) It's just about people who were coming to shows with macho, redneck,
and jock attitudes and who wouldn't leave them behind because there was still
some real serious fighting going on for awhile.  It's aimed at people who are
fascists in the head.  It's so narrow-minded to force people into your views by
beatinq them up...the best way to graphically illustrate where these fools are
coming from use to call them "Nazi Punks" and to equate them with the worst
form of fascism there's ever been.  I think it did have an effect in stopping
some of the badassed fighting that had been going on on the west coast.

Katie) Would you go on the Phil Donahue show?
Jello) Yeah, I think I could do some decent damage to the man...one tactic
they use, like when Chuck from BF was on the Rona Barrett Show, they
interviewed him for over an hour off-camera saying it was a practice so he
ended up talking himself out...by the time he got on they had narrowed it down
to a few questions that wouldn't ruffle any feathers.
Al) His eyebrows weren't tired though...

Jello) Getting back to "Punk Rock Violence," one of the main reasons why all
the rednecks started showing up...I blame the LA Times and the straight media
more than anyone else for that.  The LA Times invented the word slamdancing
and, of course, if you go to gigs and interview kids who want to shock the
media, of course they'll make up stories about how people get their legs busted
and everything else.  So people who are really into that read the article and
start showing up at the shows and wrecking them.

Al) Do you consider pro sports violent?
Jello) Pro sports is militaristic more than anything else.  The true evil of
professional sports is the 'win at all costs' attitude which has trickled down
into our lives.  They preach the Vince Lombardi philosophy even in school now,
so now you have these businessmen who are willing to stab any back and rip off
anybody they please just to be king of the mountain...just like the kind of
people whom "Nazi Punks" was written about originally who figured if they
thrashed hard enough and got enough people in the head with their fists, then
they were king of the dance floor and it was their floor.  I think that
attitude sucks.  There's a way to get violent and be cool about it and there's
a way to be violent and be a total asshole about it.  That's the distinction I
would make as opposed to positive violence vs. negative violence.  Thrashing
and diving off the stage is technically violent but its positive violence
because people are having fun doing it, and it's letting off a lot of steam
that might otherwise be let off in a much uglier way.
To get back to the Nazi Punk thing for a minute: Some people, especially in
SF, are backlashing against the song, saying we're too preachy and we tell
people what to do.  Our response to them is: What we're doing is speaking our
opinions.  We have very strong opinions and we believe in taking a stand.  If
something like headbashing at out shows gets to us, then we'll say something
about it.  We're happy to hear other people's opinions, we're happy to learn. 
At least listen to what we have to say.
Al) Do you think those people know that song's about them?
Klaus) Yeah, a lot of them knew who they were cause they got very angry.

Jimmy) Do your lyrics reflect the opinions of the band?
Jello) More or less.  I keep hoping some people would write more so I wouldn't
have to write so much.  Ray's are generally a little more personal.
Al) Do they agree with what you write?
Jello) For the most part, yeah.  Our old drummer wasn't that much into what we
were saying.
Richie) Would you rather see Reagan dead than alive?
Jello) I'd rather see him alive 'cause I'd hate to see a martyr made out of him.

Jimmy) How come Flipper didn't come?
Jello) They didn't break up--they're taking a break.  I still love Flipper.

Jimmy) What's SF like now?  It seemed to be really art-orientated.
Jello) The scene's exploding with bands.  The Maximum R & R compilation album
will be coming out soon with 47 bands on it.  One attitude in SF that sucks is
they'll only support the headlining band.  If a band opens up they never heard
of, they just fold their arms.
Sheena) Will the album be all known or unknown bands?
Jello) Some of both.  Some you've heard of.
Jimmy) Like the Wrecks (argh!).  Do you still consider yourselves an SF band?
Jello) When were there...we do play quite a bit there.

Jimmy) What happened in Philly?
Jello) Well, the real ugly thing is a rival promoter called Lee Salmon
announced on his radio show that the gig was cancelled.  He now denies doing
it, but the fact is he did.  He played at the Starlite Ballroom in a low income
neighborhood where the people get mad if they're not in on the fun.  Apparently
a stick of dynamite was thrown into the place between soundcheck and when the
band started playing.  Nobody got hurt.  A lot of people didn't show up because
of the neighborhood they were in, they expected trouble.
Jimmy) Was there a riot?
Jello) It didn't quite materialize as bad as it could have.

Jimmy) So what happened with Cyclorama?
Jello) Rumors are flying but it seems pretty obvious that two groups of people
wanted us to play with them so they called the police on Cyclorama itself. 
They closed it for some kind of fire code.  That shit doesn't happen so much on
the West Coast.

Katie) Do you think your compiling the bands in this country...people tend to
flock to you?
Jello) That's cause we're fans.  People at shows come up and say, "Why aren't
there any good bands in America?"  And we say, "Wait, there are lots of good
bands, you should listen to this, this, this, and this."  The thing was you
can't find those bands anywhere, so we put out "Jellybeans" with all the bands'
addresses.
Jimmy) Who within Alternative Tentacles is responsible for signing the bands?
Jello) We don't really "sign" the bands, we don't work that way with our own
records.  Everything is a one-off.  Even the singles, that's the only thing
involved.  No, like, two year contracts or anything like that.  With
Alternative Tentacles, the English branch is perking along pretty well now.
Jimmy) How come those records came out in England first?
Jello) Well, that's because the American end of it, the Faulty Products end,
never seems to get a record out.  We're kinda sore at them because they
promised to have the "Maximum R & R" album out and the "7 Seconds" EP out a
month ago and they still aren't out.

Klaus) It was Cherry Red getting their way with all kinds of 12 inch records
they never bothered to get our permission for.
Jello) The reason we're working with Statik in England now instead of Cherry
Red is because Cherry Red deleted "Holiday in Cambodia" for a while to make it
a collectable, then changed the cover and made it a 12 inch.  Totally without
our permission.  And English fans are the type that, if they're really into a
band, they have to have everything that band makes with every single sleeve. 
And they really don't have much money, it's realty depressed. So that's a real
back stab and guess who gets blamed for it.
[OBIK: All DK [re-]releases on Cherry Red/Anagram records are unauthorized,
poor quality, and purely money-grubbing cash-ins.  Don't buy them.  Hell, the
same goes for a lot of the other Cherry Red/Anagram stuff too.]
Anyway, with Alt. Ten...we're still trying to get it off the ground in
American because we don't nave anyone like the guy in England who gets things
rolling for us.  I think Alt. Ten. will be more visible in 1983 in America--
we're primarily gonna concentrate on the Bay Area bands.  Maybe pick up an
occasional national product when the people come to us and want to do it.  It's
really hard to turn down TSOL or DOA when they want to work with you.  In some
ways, we've seen the dawning of hardcore bar bands.  People in NY have been
complaining about that.  People crawl out and go to A-7 and say "We wanna play
here,' and they say, 'Well, what kind of music do you play?' and the band says,
"Uh, uh, hardcore." and people say "Hold it, haven't we seen you before as NY
Dolls clones?'.  I hesitate to put down all the new hardcore bands because a
lot of the kids have never been in a band before, so this is the first time
they've put something together.  The bands that have guts behind them are the
ones that will last.

The reason all the English bands with the exception of some all sound the same
is because there's a new generation of kids who grew up listening to nothing
but punk rock.  They have no outside influence.  One thing we want to do is to
keep pushing hardcore and punk to their limits but keep taking them in new
directions.  Some people have taken this attitude that they get out of a
hardcore band and say they've grown up and do things that aren't as good.  The
only people who have gone on to do something better are Will and Steve of
Flipper who used to be the backbone of Neg Trend.  The hardest core political
punk band SF ever had.

Jimmy) What's the new record gonna sound like?
Jello) It's probably going to be a lot darker than the E.P. More Psychedelic
songs like "Bleed for Me."

Katie) Do you think you're an evil person?
Jello) I think evil is a virtue considering what's considered good in this
society.  One thing that hit me at a very early age is that it was very healthy
when certain conformist people called me psycho and crazy.  They'd have nothing
to do with me so at least I wasn't falling into their traps.  Craziness and so-
called mental illness is a virtue in this day and age.  Parents in P.O.P. in LA
have been sending their kids to mental hospitals when all they ever had to do
was listen to them.  They won't listen, they just try to squelch.
Klaus) Craziness makes you take a look at yourself and what's going on around
you.  Complacency and normalness puts you right out into the center of things. 
It may make things easier for the time being, but it all builds up.

Jimmy) You're probably never gonna run out of things to attack, huh?
Jello) It's fun.  We have a sense of humor and we're not afraid to use it in a
vicious way if we have to.  In some ways, we're cultural terrorists, using
music instead of guns.  Fighting the corporate society is great fun, great kick
in the ass.  Kissinger once said, "Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac."  People
like that are very dangerous.  They have no sense of humor or real interest in
sex.  They're just concerned with running other people's lives.  Nixon had a
terrible problem with that.  He and Pat slept in separate bedrooms and Pat
explained it by saying Nixon snored too loud.  God, imagine going to bed with
Nixon!  What a horrible thought, yuk!

Jimmy) So, who's gonna be the next president?
Jello) Well, it depends on Corp.  What Corp. supports...what presidential
candidates.  I think capitalism and free enterprise don't really exist in this
country.  In many ways we have a feudalistic society.

Darron) I have a question for you Boston kids.  Do you guys support the
hardcore scene, or do you play Mafia places like the Channel?
Richie) We don't play any Mafia-oriented places.
Klaus) Not so much play there, but even go to the shows there.
Al) It's not a uniform thing.  Unity doesn't exist.  We won't play there.
Jimmy) Most of the bands will jump at anything.  So, what do you think of the
"Boston, Not LA" album?
Jello) I thought it was pretty good overall.  The two bands that seemed to
stand out for totally different reasons were the Freeze and Gang Green.  The
Freeze for variety, and Gang Green for sheer intensity.  It was all pretty
good.  Keep in mind that a lot of people picked up this album in LA and saw the
"This is Boston, Not LA" provincial attitude, and put it back without giving it
the time of day.  I think it sounds more like DC.  DC took the LA hardcore one
step further, and now there's a new level of intensity brewing with bands like
Gang Green and MDC and Scream from DC, who sounds like the Dischord EPs at 78
speed.

Al) Did you ever go under a different name to get a show?
Jello) Twice, the play high schools.  Although both times we worked it so
everyone knew who we were except the faculty.
Al)  What names did you go under?
Jello) Once "The Pink Twinkies" and another time "The Creamsicles."  We
wouldn't shorten our name for anything.  That's not where we're coming from. 
And another thing--ticket prices are $2 to $3 dollars more epxensive out htere,
which is one thing we tried to fight the first time we were out here.
Katie) This was the most expensive show.
Jello) Uh-oh.